Comments on: School Reform and Schools of Education http://edinsanity.com/2008/07/08/school-reform-and-schools-of-education/ “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” Albert Einstein Tue, 17 Jan 2012 14:57:43 +0000 hourly 1 By: Justin B. http://edinsanity.com/2008/07/08/school-reform-and-schools-of-education/comment-page-1/#comment-903 Justin B. Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:01:51 +0000 http://edinsanity.com/?p=148#comment-903 Yeah, I was responding as much to Angela's post as yours. But, I get your point. Your idea is certainly a good one. Schooling 2.0 conversations would certainly be welcome and are pretty much totally absent from schools of ed., but I do think you will get some resistance. My feeling about it though, would just be to let your tenure decision come through first, if it hasn't already. You know, the whole rocking the boat thing. I think everyone feels that if people would only discuss their reform agenda that schools would be much better off. For instance, if there were only an additional 1000 lawyers in education ... ok, well, maybe not that one. I think there is room to make a push for this in leadership programs, though, too. Scott's leadership day post sort of brought that up. I think we could gain some ground at UCEA, for instance, if several of us made a concerted effort to push that agenda, not that Scott is not already doing well. I do think we could hook in some younger professors (such as myself) that see the value in thinking about Schooling 2.0 issues. Anyway, I think UCEA could be a place to have this kind of discussion. It is not going to supplant the social justice discussions at UCEA, but it would give a lot of people that feel put out at the moment (and I know several) a place to grab hold in UCEA. P.S. - I am tempted to join the weight loss blog. I think I put on 10-15 pounds doing the dissertation. Nervous eating ... never good. Yeah, I was responding as much to Angela’s post as yours. But, I get your point.

Your idea is certainly a good one. Schooling 2.0 conversations would certainly be welcome and are pretty much totally absent from schools of ed., but I do think you will get some resistance. My feeling about it though, would just be to let your tenure decision come through first, if it hasn’t already. You know, the whole rocking the boat thing. I think everyone feels that if people would only discuss their reform agenda that schools would be much better off. For instance, if there were only an additional 1000 lawyers in education … ok, well, maybe not that one.

I think there is room to make a push for this in leadership programs, though, too. Scott’s leadership day post sort of brought that up. I think we could gain some ground at UCEA, for instance, if several of us made a concerted effort to push that agenda, not that Scott is not already doing well. I do think we could hook in some younger professors (such as myself) that see the value in thinking about Schooling 2.0 issues. Anyway, I think UCEA could be a place to have this kind of discussion. It is not going to supplant the social justice discussions at UCEA, but it would give a lot of people that feel put out at the moment (and I know several) a place to grab hold in UCEA.

P.S. – I am tempted to join the weight loss blog. I think I put on 10-15 pounds doing the dissertation. Nervous eating … never good.

]]> By: Jon Becker http://edinsanity.com/2008/07/08/school-reform-and-schools-of-education/comment-page-1/#comment-902 Jon Becker Wed, 09 Jul 2008 00:04:52 +0000 http://edinsanity.com/?p=148#comment-902 Hmmm...Justin, I'm guessing from your response that my post wasn't clear enough. Additional discussions of school reform within coursework would be welcome for sure. But, even there, I'm not talking about the usual fare; i.e. Michael Fullan, etc. I'm talking about Schooling 2.0 (for lack of any better term). My real point, though, is that we the faculty need to be having interdepartmental conversations about the future of schooling. I'm thinking of showing up in the fall and instituting regular, informal brown-bag type meetings where we discuss the following question: WHAT IS THE ROLE/PLACE OF SCHOOLING WITHIN THE FUTURE OF EDUCATION? If I can get the VCU SoE faculty to be having those conversations this coming year, I feel like I will have done pretty well. Hmmm…Justin, I’m guessing from your response that my post wasn’t clear enough. Additional discussions of school reform within coursework would be welcome for sure. But, even there, I’m not talking about the usual fare; i.e. Michael Fullan, etc. I’m talking about Schooling 2.0 (for lack of any better term). My real point, though, is that we the faculty need to be having interdepartmental conversations about the future of schooling. I’m thinking of showing up in the fall and instituting regular, informal brown-bag type meetings where we discuss the following question: WHAT IS THE ROLE/PLACE OF SCHOOLING WITHIN THE FUTURE OF EDUCATION? If I can get the VCU SoE faculty to be having those conversations this coming year, I feel like I will have done pretty well.

]]> By: Justin B. http://edinsanity.com/2008/07/08/school-reform-and-schools-of-education/comment-page-1/#comment-901 Justin B. Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:39:37 +0000 http://edinsanity.com/?p=148#comment-901 I am not sure another pre-service class is the answer. The pre-service curriculum is already packed (minimum 5 year commitment at a lot of places). We have to fight tooth and nail just to get an undergraduate ed. law/policy/ethics class in most places. I think a class dedicated only to school reform would be a hard sell. But, that said, you could probably combine a lot of these issues into a relevant class that is reform oriented. However, your idea of using the Schools of Ed. is highly important. If there is a place that should be engaged in school reform, it should be schools of ed. I think everyone there is trying to reform schools in their own way, but there is an almost complete lack of coordination amongst these entities and individuals. Perhaps that is good, as Schools of Ed. pushing particular reform agendas doesn't quite sit right either, but at a minimum Schools of Education could stress ed. reform as a valuable goal that is valued by society encouraging future practitioners to engage in reform actions in their schools. I am not sure another pre-service class is the answer. The pre-service curriculum is already packed (minimum 5 year commitment at a lot of places). We have to fight tooth and nail just to get an undergraduate ed. law/policy/ethics class in most places. I think a class dedicated only to school reform would be a hard sell. But, that said, you could probably combine a lot of these issues into a relevant class that is reform oriented.

However, your idea of using the Schools of Ed. is highly important. If there is a place that should be engaged in school reform, it should be schools of ed. I think everyone there is trying to reform schools in their own way, but there is an almost complete lack of coordination amongst these entities and individuals. Perhaps that is good, as Schools of Ed. pushing particular reform agendas doesn’t quite sit right either, but at a minimum Schools of Education could stress ed. reform as a valuable goal that is valued by society encouraging future practitioners to engage in reform actions in their schools.

]]> By: Jon Becker http://edinsanity.com/2008/07/08/school-reform-and-schools-of-education/comment-page-1/#comment-891 Jon Becker Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:42:15 +0000 http://edinsanity.com/?p=148#comment-891 Thanks, Angela. What if we took that a step (or two) further? That is, I wonder if focusing on "student achievement" per se gets us (me?) where I think we need to be. I want pre-service educators to step up to the balcony and look down on their schools within the greater context of society. Are those institutions still relevant? Are they fostering learning in ways consistent with the changing nature of knowledge and learning? Etc. Thanks, Angela. What if we took that a step (or two) further? That is, I wonder if focusing on “student achievement” per se gets us (me?) where I think we need to be. I want pre-service educators to step up to the balcony and look down on their schools within the greater context of society. Are those institutions still relevant? Are they fostering learning in ways consistent with the changing nature of knowledge and learning? Etc.

]]> By: Angela Maiers http://edinsanity.com/2008/07/08/school-reform-and-schools-of-education/comment-page-1/#comment-890 Angela Maiers Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:12:51 +0000 http://edinsanity.com/?p=148#comment-890 Jon, I couldn't agree more! Pre-service education is more about creating lesson plans and curriculum units than it is about changing student achievement. Bright, motivated, and passionate teachers are entering the system without full recognition and appreciation of all that is involved in impacting student achievement. Adding a course in school reform is one small step that could be taken to make incoming teachers more aware of the issues at play and ultimately more involved participants in the change conversations! Jon,
I couldn’t agree more! Pre-service education is more about creating lesson plans and curriculum units than it is about changing student achievement.

Bright, motivated, and passionate teachers are entering the system without full recognition and appreciation of all that is involved in impacting student achievement.

Adding a course in school reform is one small step that could be taken to make incoming teachers more aware of the issues at play and ultimately more involved participants in the change conversations!

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